Hey Dan, it's been a pleasure connecting with you and your ministry. For those who don't know you, can you share with me a bit about who you are and how the Underground Seminary began?
Sure! I've been pastoring and teaching theology for the last 20 years or so. I really love equipping the saints with biblical doctrine and apologetics. That's what drove me to put together Underground Seminary. I was blessed to take a lot of advanced theology and apologetics courses in my Master's Program. I noticed that a lot of people dealing with doubt or who were "deconstructing" had not been exposed to the training that really grounded me. I wanted to give people the chance to see the beauty of God's truth, and I wanted to make sure it was affordable. I had friends that went off to seminary and added several thousand dollars of debt to their already high undergraduate debts. Many ended up with too much debt to take ministry jobs. Others came out of seminary ill-equipped for ministry life. There are some great seminary programs out there, but I was seeing that many were wasting time and money and were leaving men unprepared for the work to which God called them. I realized that the best thing we can do is allow academic training to focus on the truth of God (Bible, theology, apologetics, etc.) and let pastors disciple up younger pastors as Scripture teaches them to do. Underground Seminary started with me wanting to train my elders. I started pulling together content simply to equip them. Pretty soon, we opened it up to the church. Then, we put it online and started training our missionaries and other people with it. Lord willing, we hope to start making it available to churches as a package deal so that the price is exceptionally low and pastors can integrate the content into their equipping. You have a passion for equipping house church leaders in addition to ensuring every disciple makes disciples. How does the Underground Seminary play a role in that? Underground Seminary allows us to train House Church Leaders (elders) without sending them away to seminary. I can put one of our guys through the program in 18 months while he's also being discipled by another elder in the church. It makes church planting much more efficient, and it ensures that our leaders are grounded in the Word. Also, since we make it free to anyone in our church, a large percentage of our laypersons study the material too. It builds depth at every level. The biblical calibre of seminary education is pretty low here in Canada. I believe that is partly why so many churches have weak leadership and malnourished congregations. Can you share with me what it's like in the States and your thoughts on how the level of biblical literacy and training impacts your nation? This is a great question. My experience is that a lot of churches and seminaries in the US are suffering the same malnourishment you are seeing in Canada. Evangelicalism here seems to have espoused a kind of theological minimalism that gives lip service to the fundamentals of the faith but lacks any kind of robust idea of the cohesiveness of our faith or the implications God's Word has for every facet of life. Pastors think their congregations can't handle theological teaching through exegetical sermons, so they dumb down teaching and add in as much entertainment value as possible. Seminaries have, in turn, focused on "leadership" classes as opposed to any form of advanced theology. I've even noticed an attack against theological training. I could talk for a while about all that is involved in this, but it is heartbreaking to me. Pastors are failing their congregations by neglecting to teach the whole counsel of Scripture and avoiding any talk of its implications for faithful obedience to Christ as King in the face of an apostate culture and government. With this in mind, I'm noticing a lot of faithful pastors getting with the program, teaching Scripture, advocating for family worship, discipling faithfully, and doing the good work. There are a lot of churches like mine, made up of 40-50 people building faithful families, homeschooling kids, studying well, evangelizing daily, and applying the Word to the public sphere. I'm optimistic about the unseen faithful. Also, there are a few good seminaries out there doing good work. Often good Seminary education is out of reach simply because of logistic and financial reasons. Can you share how your Seminary addresses these matters? Definitely! First, our content is entirely accessible online. The goal is that you don't have to leave ministry to train for ministry. Also, we are presently uncredited (and plan to remain that way for now). We deliver knowledge. Simple as that. We avoid issues related to cost because we aren't playing the academic accreditation game. We've curated content based on what we know students need, not on what will check the box for accreditation. We offer the content as a subscription ($35-45/month per person). So, you can work at your own pace rather than in a semester format. We recommend doing one unit per month, but some people like to move slower and do one unit every 2-3 months. Others like to move quickly. In any case, you don't have to worry about the deadline or losing out on money because ministry crises got in the way of studies. You have access to all of the content for as long as you are a subscriber. In any case, most people can swing $35/month. It might mean sacrificing one meal out per month, but it is doable for most. By the way, we are planning to offer bulk packages to churches at a rate of $1,200 per year for twelve people. This works out to about $10/month per person. We are also switching our content delivery into a learning management system that will make for a really user-friendly experience. I'm excited about expanding the program and getting more churches involved at an even lower price. As we come to the end of the interview, can you share with my readers how they can access Underground Seminary? Sure! They can visit UndergroundSeminary.net to try it out for 30 days FREE! We don't ask for a credit card, so you don't have to remember to cancel later. It really is a free 30-day trial with no strings attached. If you like it, you can subscribe after that. If you are a pastor, and you are interested in the program for your church, you can contact me by email at [email protected].
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I (Aimee) have been following you for a while. I've really been enjoying the stuff that you share. For those who may not know you, can you share a bit about who you are and where you're from?
Hello! Thank you so much, its been both a joy to have connected with other believers in this way. Absolutely. My name is Samantha Boswell. I was born in Halifax, Nova Scotia, but moved when I was 3 to Winnipeg, Manitoba, where I spent 20 years until I met my husband, Aaron Boswell, at a Starbucks. (Well, that's the short version anyway! The long one is like a Hallmark movie, but I'll save that for another time :) ) My husband Aaron is American and moved to Canada to start a church in Winnipeg 11 years ago. We were married in 2013, and in the last 9 years of marriage, we have moved to three different Canadian cities and have also been blessed with three kids, ranging in age from 1 to 7. After our first 8 months of marriage, we moved to Montreal to plant a church and, after 3 years and helping to get that church started, we moved to Vancouver to do the same thing again. However, God had other plans, and Aaron ended up training and equipping future church planters at an established church. Throughout this work, however, he really felt a desire to plant another church that would help plant healthy churches who would plant healthy churches) and he knew exactly where - back in Winnipeg. to continue ministry there. I never dreamed God would bring us back, and I was hesitant at first, but the Lord made it clear to both of us we were to go back, and so in February 2020 we planted again, right before the pandemic hit. The Lord has done some amazing work we've been able to see over the last two years. I wear many hats - primarily wife, mom, Bible study leader, homeschooler and homemaker - but I'm also a Certified Health Coach for pregnancy and postpartum and partner with several wellness companies as brand affiliates. This year I added Podcaster to the list as I finally decided to start using my modest online platform to start speaking about cultural, political, and theological issues. It's been a totally new sphere for me, and as a recovering people pleaser and "polite Canadian" it has already grown me a ton, and I'm thankful for it! I'm intrigued by the name of your podcast - "Can't stay quiet". How did you choose the name for your podcast? Have you felt the pressure to stay quiet in the past? Before I decided if I was going to start speaking out online, I took a month off of Instagram from my public business account and also created a second private account, where I felt more freedom to share what was on my mind. I took the break from my business account because as more and more was happening in the world, every time I would share my usual health and wellness tips, it was beginning to feel more and more disingenuous to me. Not because I was unsure in the things that I was sharing, but because there was SO MUCH more I wanted to say about a hundred other more important things but didn't know if it was the place and more so what the response would be. After that break, I said I was going to decide either to quit using Instagram altogether or go all in, and share my real thoughts on real issues, things that actually mattered in eternal ways. July 2021 I threw out the rulebook of Instagram and never looked back. Erin Coates suggested to look out for you as you could be the Canadian Allie Stuckey. What has been encouraging to you by those who speak about politics and theology? Erin is so sweet. That is the highest compliment in my books! And I'm honoured that anyone would even suggest it has the potential at that. My husband encouraged me that even if I wrote and podcasted just for my own knowledge, growth and enjoyment, it would be enough. And for me, just to know and see it's helped at least one other person wrestle through, maybe for the first time, a tough or controversial issue or maybe makes one other conservative Christian feel less alone, it will have done what I hoped it would do. To answer your question, though, I have been so encouraged by women like Allie Stuckey, who stand for Biblical truth in the midst of cultural opposition. Watching women like her not let the fear of man, the fear of other's opinions, get in the way from speaking truth has impacted me immensely. I grew up, like so many, wanting to be liked, avoiding controversy, and trying to be the "nice" Canadian Christian. And there was a part of me that assumed I must either be wrong or not saying something in the right way if people still disagreed and disliked me after I explained my views (if I ever dared to do so). I would think if I could just explain it better, maybe if I used different words, they would not misunderstand me, but I've come to accept that we will be misunderstood and disliked when we stand for truth. And when we look at scripture, we see we are to expect these sorts of trouble. To see women love the Lord, love His Word, regard it as the ultimate source of Truth, and not back down even after they get trolls and hate messages, because God is their standard for Truth and their foundation in the midst of opposition has been so inspiring. In addition to recently writing about theology and politics, you are a health coach for pre and post natal. How does the gospel change how you work as a health coach? I love this question! The gospel changes so much in this line of work. First, I don't approach healthy eating or living from this constantly striving or trying to "finally arrive" at a perfect weight or state of life, or as if my happiness and content are wrapped up in how much I weigh or how I feel. Instead, I hope to give women the tools they need that can help them at every stage of pregnancy and postpartum in an effort to care for and steward what God has given them, so they can feel their best as they care for their growing baby and their children. Second, working on healthy living doesn't come from a place of stress and anxiety, as if our life is in our own hands. I lost my father to cancer in my early twenties, and for a season afterward, I viewed being healthy and making sure my. Husband also followed suit as an effort to essentially "not get a disease and die." I didn't realize it at first, but all of my healthy choices had an underlying thought of, "if we just do all these right things, we won't get sick, and we'll be ok." Needless to say, I don't view it this way anymore, and I know I can trust God with all of my days. Likewise, when I share online or work with a client, this is the view I'm weaving into any coaching. I have been warned about natural medicine leading to new age teachings. You recommend a lot of natural medicine and follow the God who made them. Can you explain to me how you reconcile these two? Also a really important question, and this would add to the last question as well. We need to practice discernment in all areas, especially when it comes to the health world. It's sad to say, but there does tend to be a lot of different, often new age, beliefs wrapped into what living a healthy life means for people mainstream. So the gospel shapes that for me by dictating what things I do or don't do and products I would or wouldn't use (or how I would use them). So, for example, I stopped doing yoga years ago. After learning more about the Hindu roots of yoga (which literally means "union") and it's purpose being to "bring spiritual enlightenment" I saw no way in which a Christian could reconcile these differences and participate. Some Christians will say that we can "redeem" practices like yoga, but as every move was created as a worship pose to false gods, the breathing techniques are meant to regulate the flow of what they call "prana," the Hindu term for life energy, and as we see no place in scripture to look for spiritual enlightenment in these ways (meditating on scripture is not synonymous), I see the two as incompatible. The natural medicine and supplements that I use most tend to be plant related, such as essential oils. God created plants, and its by no mistake that he gave them their medicinal properties, as well as their smells that work with our brains (all we have to do is imagine freshly baked bread or what Christmas memories smell like to us). Scientifically we can see their properties. For example, some are antibacterial, antiviral, etc. In Canada, their uses have been clinically studied and confirmed beneficial by Health Canada as Natural Health Products for things like coughs, colds, headaches, arthritis, cuts, and stress. So, when I use essential oils in these ways, I see them as a common grace gift from our Creator we are free to use. However, where I think people can use essential oils in ways that don't honour God is by worshiping the creation instead of the creator. They look to essentials oils, for example, to do things they were not created to do; like give us peace, hope, forgiveness or any other obscure use people would like to say they can be used for. That would be an abuse of what God created. There are so many things in the health world that we need discernment for, and so I think it's important to have these conversations. A really helpful book on this topic would be "Alternative Medicine: The Christian Handbook" by Donal O'Mathuna. I will also add that I know some things may be a matter of conscience, and that, for example, some people who have left the new age may choose to stay away from essential oils altogether as they once used them in ways they would now reject and so the smell or use affects them in ways it wouldn't others. Thanks for your time! As we come to the end of our interview, is there anything you'd like to say to encourage others not to stay quiet? Thank you so much for inviting me on the blog! I was honoured to be asked. I would encourage anyone who has wanted to speak up but feels afraid because of possible rejection they might face to do it anyway! Remember that we will face suffering and persecution in this lifetime; the Bible tells us to expect that in following Christ, but we are never alone. The Lord has good works planned for us to do, and He has given us ALL we need for life and godliness. We can trust He is good, and He will provide. It is so much better to forget ourselves - our reputation, what we think others will think of us - to throw that all aside and run the good race, live to please our King; it's He who will test our hearts (1 Thessalonians 2:4). That we would run the race marked out for us with joy and know that real love does not stay quiet, but speaks the truth in love! Thank you for coming back to do another interview. Today I want to talk about Christian freedom. Can you share with me what you believe is the difference between the freedom that Jesus offers and the freedom the world is pursuing?
It’s really quite interesting, because when we talk about freedom in Christ, we’re really talking about a kind of paradox. If we back it up, we’re all slaves to something. As sons and daughters of Adam, we all inherit Adam’s fallen nature. We, born as human beings, are born as slaves to sin. When the Spirit regenerates a son of Adam and adopts him as a son of God, we actually continue in slavery - slavery to God. It’s the kind of idea that “We always worship something or someone.” We are always slaves to something or someone, and if you are in Christ, you are His slave. Now, this is where the paradox comes in because the Scriptures don’t just mention this new life, this new birth, this new heart of flesh beating for the King as in a slave state. The Scriptures also declare us free. Free from what? Free from slavery to sin. We no longer are compelled to serve our sinful desires, and by being a slave of Christ, we are free from sin. God literally gives us the access to freedom away from sin and towards His Glory, and so we see that there is no freedom that isn’t also bound. True freedom is only offered in Christ in that we are freed from that which enslaves us towards death. We are freed then towards what binds us to life and that life to the fullest, namely a life lived to the glory of God. The world’s freedom is a counterfeit freedom. We say “counterfeit” because it mimics true freedom. While being a slave to sin, there is no true freedom to be had- only slavery. You can feel free- free to follow your sinful desires, passions, lusts, and inclinations. However, that is not freedom at all. That is simply throwing the dirt around your own grave. And so, whenever we deal with the freedom that the world is pursuing, we must remember there is but one source of freedom, and that is found by subjecting yourself as a slave of Christ! Today is Good Friday. How does Jesus’ death influence the way that you live your life, especially in regards to your stand for freedom? We must admit, sadly, we do not think we live in light of Jesus’ death as often as we should. As the Lord gives grace, we believe we are growing and being sanctified, but still fall far short. However, we do think there are profound influences that the work Christ accomplished on the cross has on how we fight for liberty. Personally we believe that there is a broader societal benefit to Christians living in light of the freedom from sin that Christ won for us. As eyes are opened to the beauty, majesty, power, and righteousness of God, that should change the way we live, and that includes fighting for freedom to increase so that we can live peaceable lives (1 Tim 2:2). We're also convinced that fighting for liberty should never eclipse the Gospel message. Pastor Jacob Reaume said something with much better articulation and force in a recent sermon he gave. But conservatism for conservatism’s sake is just as much of a man-made philosophy as anything else if it is not set on a gospel foundation. So we must evangelize those who are antithetical to the cause of liberty, but we must never forsake the evangelization of other fellow freedom fighters as well, so that they may come to the knowledge of Who is the One who can give true freedom in the first place. A slave to the world that loves liberty is simply someone stuck in the mire of death and longing for the real thing on the other side. Show them the other side, call them to repentance and to true freedom! As we know, Jesus didn’t stay in the grave. He’s alive, conquering death, and now reigns as our king and high priest. How do these truths shape the way you view life and your activity in society? The heaviest hit here needs to be to our complacency. The question itself should bring us greater hope, resolve, grit and determination to fulfill the Great Commission. The victory that Christ attained on the cross actually happened. It was a moment in time in the course of human history. We tend to spiritualize His death, but it actually happened. The victory has been achieved. We have unprecedented access to God that the Patriarchs wouldn’t have been able to fathom. The curtain is torn, the Spirit indwells us, we have not just access to the Truth, but the very Spirit of Truth with us at all times. And so this should spur us on to love and good works. This should cause us to lay down heavy fire against the Enemy in our lives, homes, churches, workplaces, and broader culture. Guys, the cross happened, yes, but so did the resurrection! Oh glorious day! If we stopped more often to contemplate the work Christ accomplished over the course of one weekend, we would be far less apathetic to the cause of Christ going out into our culture. Here in Canada, our freedoms are being slowly stripped away. I think as this is happening, we need to remember our freedom in Jesus. How do you think this reminder will prepare us for further suppression? Reading Acts and the Epistles shows us exactly what we should look like as we prepare for further persecution. I’m [Jesse] currently reading through 2 Corintians. All throughout the book, Paul talks of the cause of Christ, the sacrifice Paul has made for the churches, the persecution he’s suffered, and the comfort that he and the Apostles have experienced through it all. He opens up the book talking about “the God of all comfort who comforts us in all our affliction.” We must remember that though we may be in chains, we are free in Christ. And because we are free in Christ, we are comforted by Him, come what may. This also should speak volumes to our complacency. That we do not despair in our persecution or suppression. That the Apostle Paul was comforted by God in his affliction, and we can be too. This is so evident in the attitudes, actions, and words of men like Pastor Tim Stephens and James Coates as they were imprisoned last year. I [Jesse] remember hearing the letter James wrote to Gracelife and thinking “This sounds like an epistle!” And if the Lord sustained James and Tim and Paul and Peter and all the others, He will sustain us too when it’s our turn. As we come to an end of the interview, I’d like to ask one final question. What hope do we have as Christians because of good Friday? We have hope realized. All before Christ could but look forward in faith to the kind of freedom Christ’s death would bring the generations after His coming. Freedom from sin is an impossible task without the perfect sacrifice of the Spotless Lamb. And so, as believers, this hope is a reality. We simply need to live in light of it. Those who do not believe do not have access to that freedom like Christians do. But it is certainly available. Romans 10:9-10 states, “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, leading to righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, leading to salvation.” This is true. You, too, can experience true freedom. Repent from your sins, confess that Jesus is Lord, believe in His resurrection, and Christ’s work on the cross will have your sins nailed there too. Then and only then can you experience the true freedom God has for man Hello Arron Rock. Thanks for being willing to do this interview. Many of my readers know who you are. Last year you began a podcast called Leadership Now. What has been your favourite topic to discuss so far on the podcast?
It is difficult to identify a favourite podcast, but I do especially enjoy episodes within which I can help equip people to identify both problems and possible solutions. My recent episode on The Christian Village, as well as How to Respond to Forced Jabs, Despair and Bill C4, and Christian Strategies for Relocation, Employment, Safety & Cultural Impact all fall into this category. Today I want to chat with you about training leaders for difficult times. Can you share with me the challenges you are facing as a leader and what you expect other leaders to face in the future? Because I perceive of Christian leadership as a stewardship from God, good leaders will wield their influence for the glory of God and out of a solemn sense of responsibility to honour Christ with their lives. Solid biblical preaching, role modelling, and robust discussions about current issues are all means of equipping leaders. I like to provide growing leaders with assignments and opportunities that I believe suits them and then encourage them to aim for excellence in their service. Some of the challenges we face in developing leaders is helping them gain a proper assessment of their actual strengths and weaknesses, and the stark realities of what leadership entails. Increasingly we need to re-educate new leaders to think like Christians in all areas of life, since many have placed their faith in Christ, but continue to think like non Christians due to past educational and cultural experiences. I am, however, very pleased to see a growing number of young men and women step up and lead boldly in areas that suit their individual calling. Opposition towards Christians isn’t entirely new - it’s just now more prevalent here in Canada. What qualities and convictions should we be looking for in young men to know that they will endure hard times as leaders? Young leaders are most likely to endure hard times when they are clear-minded about their core beliefs, think consistently about the Gospel’s application to every sphere and aspect of life, are sensitive to the Spirit’s convicting influence over their decisions and choices, are comfortable in their masculinity, and have proven themselves in the small, daily decisions they make. It is wise for young men to surround themselves with godly peers and older mentors who can help identify their blind spots, hold them accountable, and instruct them in wisdom. In one of your sermons, you mentioned that leadership came naturally to you, even from a young age. There are some, like myself, where leadership doesn’t come naturally. What advice do you have for those individuals? I tend to be more concerned about equipping people to maximize their influence than pursuing leadership roles per se. Not every Christian will necessarily be a gifted leader, but all Christians have the potential to wield influence over others as they steward their unique gifts and opportunities for Christ. Each will be equipped by God for varying levels of influence and must be content to maximize their stewardship without comparing themselves to others. That said, developing leaders will have the greatest amount of leadership when they demonstrate integrity, self-awareness of their strengths and weaknesses, conviction, reasonableness and wisdom, humility, and long-term perseverance. As we end the interview, I want to touch on another area of leadership - the family. God has given fathers the role to lead their own families. This is increasingly becoming more difficult in our society. I want to close with this question - what are your recommendations for training fathers to lead their families when the government oversteps? The cultural upheaval we are experiencing in Western countries has provided a wonderful opportunity for parents to proactively instruct their children in the Christian worldview. Fathers, in particular, have a prime opportunity to demonstrate courage and conviction to their children by speaking truth to lies and standing fearless and firm in the face of adversity. In many ways, it has become easier to instruct and raise children because the state overreach, wokism, and insanity that has erupted due to society’s abandonment of God is more evident than ever before, and even our children are seeing it. Words and faith are our primary weapons, and I would encourage fathers to engage in thoughtful conversations with their families about each of the issues that we face and how the Bible provides a framework to address them. |